Square-Enix Party 2008 revealed

[Marvin]

In what comes as good news for PS3 and PSP owners (especially after the recent 360 news) Square-Enix have just announced their Square-Enix Party 2008. It'll be held on the 2nd and 3rd of August in Japan and is called DK S 3713. The letters and numbers have been speculated to stand for various games and media that are going to be shown, and Square Enix have revealed an official site for the event, as well as a list of all the games and media that will be on show. These are:

- Final Fantasy XIII (Playtation 3)
- Final Fantasy Agito XIII (Mobile)
- Final Fantasy Versus XIII (Playtation 3)
- Kingdom Hearts Coded (Mobile)
- Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days (Nintendo DS)
- Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep (PSP)
- Dissidia Final Fantasy (PSP)
- The 3rd Birthday (Mobile)
- Sigma Harmonics (Nintendo DS)
- Final Fantasy VII AC Complete (Blu-Ray)

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

[nshady]

That DS game has a stupid name.

[admeister]

Hey, at least it's original.

[Julz]

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

If they forgot about the Playstation 3 that would be blasphemy since they've been making heaps of exclusive games for the Sony consoles for over 10 years. I'm looking forward to their continued commitment.

I'm kind of annoyed that none of the Kingdom Hearts games are on a worthwhile platform. I'll be able the play the DS version, but it seems like a waste on that. If they make a KH3 it should be on PS3 or die.

[moodycj]

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

If they forgot about the Playstation 3 that would be blasphemy since they've been making heaps of exclusive games for the Sony consoles for over 10 years. I'm looking forward to their continued commitment.

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

[admeister]

It's nice to see that Square-Enix haven't forgotten about PS3 and PSP owners, and seem set to show new media/release new info regarding all of these titles. Stay tuned.

I'm kind of annoyed that none of the Kingdom Hearts games are on a worthwhile platform. I'll be able the play the DS version, but it seems like a waste on that.

Well, I intend to play both of the portable Kingdom Hearts games, and I'm looking forward to it. As for KH3, we won't be seeing that any time soon, not before FFXIII is done.

[Julz]

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

KH3 will probably be on either Wii or PS3 as there are more of those in Japan than the 360. If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game. That's why I'm rooting for the PS3 on this one.

[moodycj]

They will go where the money is. Once upon a time they used to make heaps of games for Nintendo consoles. KH3 will be on the console(s) they think it will sell the most.

KH3 will probably be on either Wii or PS3 as there are more of those in Japan than the 360. If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game. That's why I'm rooting for the PS3 on this one.

TBH I don't care where it goes but I would like to hear why you think it would ruin the series.

[Predator]

I would have thought the wii controller would actually be a pain for just a standard RPG game.. moving around all the time, and constant battles.

With the wii, they'd have to play around trying to create some control scheme that would be adapted for the Wii. It worked for Zelda, but they sort of had that in mind.

[nshady]

It could be awesome. There's a few potential ways you could do it. Big onscreen buttons for attacks. Or you could wave in a particular direction (up, down, left, right) to pick one. Or you just use the nunchuk and the Wiimote for button presses. Or you enable the classic controller/gamecube controller.

Plenty of options - the best would include all, but even with just a nunchuk it would work fine, I think.

[moodycj]

I agree with Nick, there are heaps of choices and you don't have to have the pointer select anything unless it is easier that way. What do you mean by moving around all the time? Don't most games involve moving?

I am more interested in how the wii will ruin Kingdom Hearts.

[Julz]

It probably will depend on what you liked about the Kingdom Hearts games in the first place as to how much the Wii will remove the experience given from the PS2.

Here are a few I’m expecting:

Two of the most lasting things in my mind from Kingdom Hearts are the fantastically designed worlds and the fantastic music (thankyou Yoko Shimomura and Utada Hikaru). Okay, so the Wii can support Surround sound, it's not optical though.

Mainly, the graphics on the Wii (that I have seen so far) are comparable to the graphics during the final years of the PS1 and the early titles on the PS2, let alone what is currently whipped up on PS2 and not even close to the gorgeous environments they could spin using the engine of the PS3. While graphics are often not as important as many other components in a video game the Wii’s abilities are so low in this area that you won’t be able to immerse yourself in the gaming experience as much. The graphical inferiority of the Wii isn’t so obvious with most of the games on the console (especially first party) because most are designed to be “cutesy” where the style involves less detail and so you can get away with this. This doesn’t apply to Kingdom Hearts and considering that Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics it seems like a waste, especially when the series is already so established at looking so awesomely fantastic.

In addition, I don’t think that the Wii mote will make the game more fun or ‘just as fun’; I think it will just make it a pain in the arse. They’ll have to change the whole battle system just for this sequel to suit the mechanics of the Wii-mote. This requires more effort and chances are it will make the game frustrating for return players who were used to the way the game played on the PS2 and even PSP (when game series have changed platforms in the past, i.e. SNES to PSX (FF series) the controls are still generally the same so if changes are made they are minor. You also find that people don’t always like the battle system being messed with and huge changes that are made, not due to choices particularly based on making it better but on a controller system change will leave people annoyed. I for one don’t look forward to the idea of how I’m going to coordinate 3 characters in battle using a Wii mote and nun-chuck).
The case would be different if it was a stand-alone title, but it’s unlikely to be. They might go the way of the Wii because more people already have them but a lot of people will buy a PS3 to get their hands on Metal Gear Solid 4 and a lot of people will buy a PS3 to get their hands on Kingdom Hearts 3. Either way, apart from adding gimmicky, quite possibly annoying controls into the game all the Wii has to offer to the player is extra sh*tty graphics. This isn't a game that can be improved on the Wii.


I have to say that I now personally really HATE (yes, thems strong words) the Wii. This has no precedent on Nintendo, or the fact that I grew up with Atari, Sega and Sony, but the fact that this console is so behind the 360 and PS3 as far as the incorporated technology that I don’t think it should even be considered as a console of the current generation (or “next generation” as some people still call it). I would gladly throw David's out the window and consider it not any more a waste of money than when it was first purchased.

[nshady]

You're kidding, right? PS1?



PS2?





Wii:





Let's keep things in perspective here.

Your controller worries are basically invalid because a) there's no reason why they need to change the battle mechanics unless they wanted to, and b) they could easily allow for multiple control setups to allow for customisation and the various controllers.

Though I see what you're saying about cutesy models, and the Wii's inability to pull off such detailed, gritty characters:

[Batman]

Kingdom Hearts hasn't been good since the first.

[moodycj]

Yeah, your graphics arguments are not logical. The wii is clearly miles ahead of the PS1. The PS2 was the weakest graphically last gen, so if the wii is 2 duct taped GC's and as you claim"Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics" then they will have no trouble getting the best out of the wii graphically.

Your controller argument while potentially logical, is in my opinion also kind of silly. You don't want change? All games change some thats how they improve, the controls improved MP3. Many games have been done well this gen with the wiimote. "I for one don’t look forward to the idea of how I’m going to coordinate 3 characters in battle using a Wii mote and nun-chuck". Why? it will be the same as you did on the PS, seriously you will select with the nunchuck and A button. As far as controlling more than one unit BWii did it ok and you had heaps more than 3.

I really couldn't care less about this game but if as you admit you hate the wii it seems like you are letting that hate blind you. You have serious misconceptions about the capabilities of the wii and the level of difficulty of the wiimote. You seem bitter that your personal preference is not that of the majority. I understand you want it on the PS3 but you are making ridiculous and untrue claims about the wii ruining the game. While I can't understand your hatred for a console this is the only reason you don't want it on the wii.

[admeister]

Nice picture choices Nick. FFVII is still looking good! I definitely agree with what you're saying. Some of the earlier Wii games were certainly disappointing graphically, but the standard has improved, and is at least as good as the PS2, better in a fair few cases. One problem with your post is that you only posted pics from 1st party Wii games though...

Batman: KH2 > you. Nobody disses that game while I'm around.

[Julz]

You can't take FF7 graphics as the PS1, that's when they first decided to use 3D in RPGs (other than Wild ARMs before it). I said the later titles, so FF9 would have been an applicable choice.



Notice how the images you got from the PS2 have:

A) More smooth outlines
B) More texture

And even if the Wii can (now) get graphics to the PS2 level, that's still a massive step below 360 and PS3.

The hate doesn't blind me because I gave the console a chance and it did nothing for me. I can hate something and hate it with a logical mindset, it's not that hard. Plus I only really came to the conclusion that I hate the Wii when making that post. I'm also not bitter, I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game.

I also don't think change is bad, but it depends on what the change is based on and how the change can work. I don't think the Wii is the right move. I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console often, but I just don't think it would work nearly as well on the Wii as it would on the PS3 (or 360 although that will never happen).

[moodycj]

You had 2 complaints to support this statement, "If KH3 is made on the Wii the series will be ruined, that console just isn't right for the game."

"This isn't a game that can be improved on the Wii." This was your claim when refering to the graphics. The pictures Nick showed are still better than the one you just posted and it is well know that the wii and even the GC is capable of better graphics than the PS2. So clearly it can be improved graphics wise if not as much as it would the PS3/Xbox. This shows that your 1st complaint is either misinformed or just wrong.

Your second was "adding gimmicky, quite possibly annoying controls into the game." and you admit "I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console". In what way was the MP series more targeted at the wii than KH. Both were made before the wii existed. There is no reason to assume that the controls would be worse. I personally can't think of games I have liked less because of the wiimote, maybe you haven't played enough wii games.

You claim your hate is logical but the arguments that stem from it are not.

"I just don't get why people think the Wii is a good platform choice for this game."
Chances are it is
a) Because they own a wii and like the game
b) Unlike you they enjoy the wiimote
c) Hate PS3 just as you hate the wii
I am sure there are other reasons

[Batman]

Batman: KH2 > you. Nobody disses that game while I'm around.

KH2? No.

KH1 maybe.

[nshady]

You can't take FF7 graphics as the PS1, that's when they first decided to use 3D in RPGs (other than Wild ARMs before it). I said the later titles, so FF9 would have been an applicable choice.

Yay, FFIX!

the graphics on the Wii (that I have seen so far) are comparable to the graphics during the final years of the PS1 and the early titles on the PS2

Yes, they could make a better looking game on the PS3 than the Wii. That is obvious. But saying that a game on the Wii would look worse than the games that were available on the PS2 is simply ridiculous. The Gamecube had better graphics than the PS2 did, and, as moody rightfully pointed out, even if the Wii is two Gamecubes taped together, it would still have the power to make better looking games than the PS2. Your argument is illogical.

Wii’s abilities are so low in this area that you won’t be able to immerse yourself in the gaming experience as much.

So... did you have trouble immersing yourself in the world of the previous games when they were on PS2?

Square has always been at the forefront of amazingly good graphics

They have been at the forefront of impressive cutscenes, at least.

I agree the controls work fine with games specifically targeted for this console, but I just don't think [Kingdom Hearts] would work nearly as well on the Wii

The fact is that there are any number of ways in which the controls could work on the system - including through the use of a traditional controller! There's simply no reason why this should be any kind of barrier. Hell, in terms of character management, look to Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. It was a launch title and it managed to pull of controlling multiple characters at once.




Mmm... look at them smooth outlines. And the textures!

The graphical inferiority of the Wii isn’t so obvious with most of the games on the console (especially first party) because most are designed to be “cutesy” where the style involves less detail and so you can get away with this.

Oh, the inferiority! This is a non-cutesy Wii game. It looks considerably better than anything the PS2 could pull off, and, in my opinion, holds up stylistically to what I've seen on the PS3.

[admeister]

I think this is possibly our most popular article yet. I agree with you Nick, while the Wii has less power than the PS3 and 360, it doesn't mean it will have bad looking games. Hell, the later PS2 games still look great to me, so I don't have any particular issues with the Wii, which can do ever better. So while the PS3 and 360 might be well ahead in the graphical area, the Wii is almost completely different.

[Julz]

I still think the Wii will be a worse platform than the PS3 based on what I said. You can grab all the low quality pictures you want (those of FF9 don't represent the graphics at all while mine does) to try and prove the point against me but I expect each sequel to look better than the last and after getting used to 360 and PS3 level graphics the Wii doesn't cut it. Hell, if they released KH3 on PS2 I'd be pissed off for the same reasons.

[moodycj]

I still think the Wii will be a worse platform than the PS3 based on what I said.

You have now changed from wii will ruin the game to I think it would be better on PS3.

You can grab all the low quality pictures you want (those of FF9 don't represent the graphics at all while mine does) to try and prove the point against me but I expect each sequel to look better than the last and after getting used to 360 and PS3 level graphics the Wii doesn't cut it.

Yours was still not as good as Nicks wii pics, look at it. As too getting used to PS3 and 360 levels, the PC has been at that level and above for years yet people still enjoyed their PS2. The sequel would look better on the wii than it did on the PS2. Your opinion that the graphics don't cut it anymore isn't the opinion of 25+ million people world wide.

[nshady]

Well, at least she's conceded the point about the control scheme.

[Julz]

You ruin the potential. You can also consider the meaning of ruin in my post above is in the same way that spilling a drop of wine ruins a tablecloth. Sure, you can cover it up and make it seem like it's just as good but if you look more closely you'll notice it's not.

I'm yet to see a Wii game that looks better than PS2 games I've played. Spider-Man 3 on Wii looks like something the PS1 could produce for example (okay, cheap shot, but meh. ).

Here are some other screens to prove that the titles on Wii aren't better than PS2 (at the moment, definitely).

PS2



and a rendered one, for fun:


Wii:


<--- what bad image quality reflects on graphical capabilities!!

<-- this was the best screen shot (as far as how nice it looks) without taking rendered advertising pics.



Granted, they might (and should) get better on Wii, but considering the pictures above on PS2 are of a third party game (that isn't huge budget like KH or Mario games) Vs. first party huge budget on the Wii it's not terribly spectacular what we get from Mario Galaxy since PS2 is last generation and not as powerful as the Xbox1. I tried to get a mix of screenshots that were actually comparable. It's easy to get really nice shots of Wii games and bad shots of PS2 games to make an argument so I thought I'd repost.

Since Nintendo made the Wii they should be able to make graphics of high quality. Similarly, since the PS2 has similar graphical capabilities why are games coming out that look worse? Surely if developers have been able to make games to PS2 (for years!), 360 and PS3 quality already then making games to a higher Wii standard should be occuring. I'm not seeing it yet.

nshady: I still not sold on the controllers, I've had frustration with them not responding in games (the pointing, shaking side of the control) and it's annoying considering that the controls are the main component of the console.

[moodycj]

You complain about Nick posting low res shots and then you post some complete shockers. 
Graphically PS2 < GC and the wii is at worst assumed to be 2x as good as the GC. Both Mario Galaxy and MP3 look better than what is generally assumed to be the best looking game on the PS2 god of war 2. You saying that "I'm yet to see a Wii game that looks better than PS2 games I've played" indicates you have either not played Galaxy or MP3 or you are deluding yourself. You claim that you have offered proof when you were quick to dismiss Nicks pictures as being bias. The reason you are not seeing better graphics is yet is simply 3rd parties realizing that the wii is so popular they don't need to bother making really good graphics. I agree this is disappointing.

Regardless your argument that no wii game has surpassed the PS2 is nonsense.

[nshady]

Julz, the point with the controllers is that they don't have to use the Wiimote.

They could implement any number of different configurations as to how you control it, including nunchuk (for analog stick), or even the Classic Controller.

Also, the first two Wii pictures aren't the final game, so they can be disregarded. I honestly don't know how you can look at this:





and think the PS2 one looks better.

PS2 has a 294MHz CPU and a 147MHz GPU. Wii has a 729 MHz CPU and a 243 MHz GPU. There's just more power there. Honestly, if you booted up Mario Galaxy on your Wii, then booted up a PS2 game, and switched your cables back and forth, I bet you that none of the in-game footage on PS2 would reach the quality achieved in Mario Galaxy.

Please note that we're not saying that the game would look as good as the PS3, we're just pointing out that if Square-Enix put the same amount of effort they'd put into a PS3 sequel into the Wii, there's no way it would be worse than PS2.

I mean, honestly:

This or this vs. this or this?

[RJG]

Hey, here's an idea: When you compare screenshots, compare them using their full, native resolution (without upscaling or downscaling) without saving them in a file format like JPEGs that create artefacts and ruin picture quality.

How's that sound, you bunch of bickering pricks?

The native resolution for FFXI on PS1 is 320x240, for PS2 it is 640x480, and for Wii it is 480p (with anamorphic widescreen), which means it refreshes the whole picture which eliminates flickering.

Any argument that the Wii is incapable of producing graphics greater than that of the PS2 is merely the deranged rambling of an uninformed fanboy.

The reason games don't look as good is because a) developers don't care, b) rose coloured glasses, c) playing on HD makes older games look worse because older CRT TVs work like having full screen anti-aliasing and d) developer's don't try.

As for the control scheme, there is no reason they could not include the traditional control scheme for the Wii. In fact, plenty of traditional games on the Wii support the GCN and classic controller. RE4 and DBZ come to mind.

As for the claim that the Wii is not the right market for the series...well, you've got me stumped there. WHY ON EARTH would parents buy a game featuring Disney characters for their children to play on the Wii they already use for themselves? OF COURSE they would spend TWICE AS MUCH on a BRAND NEW CONSOLE just to play the same game with slightly prettier graphics that they don't even understand or appreciate? I mean, sure, you're a big fan of the series and obviously so well informed of the graphical capabilities of every console and all, but YOU THINK that PS3 is better suited to family-centric titles because you like it more.

(Of course, now you're going to go off about how KH is really deep and mature and special and deals with kids growing up and all that bullshit. So does f**king Power Rangers and the GI Joe cartoon. Moral at the end of every story. Doesn't make it them bloody Pulitzer prize winners, does it?)

You're a fangirl. End of story. You gave the Wii a chance, didn't like it. But isntead of being apathetic or simply not caring towards something you don't enjoy, you took the EXTRA effort to go right out and HATE it. Why? If it does nothing for you, then you shouldn't care either way. The obvious answer is that you're afraid of it, because you're afraid KH3 will go to Wii and not PS3 and you want it on PS3.

Desire causes suffering, now you're hating something because you don't get what you want, and wasting all your energy on a stupid internet message board crying because you'll have to use your arms to play a video game with Mickey f**king Mouse in it.

It's a personal preference. The aged market (older fans of Final Fantasy titles, younger fans of Disney) are well represented within the age bracket for the Wii. Sure, the fans who started to like Final Fantasy with VII on the Playstation might not like it, but hey, they're retards.

And whoever said FFVII still looks good to this day, you annoy me. Shut up. It looked horrible then, it looks horrible now. The only saving grace it had was the FMVs that made me realise that Tifa had boobs that weren't giant triangles that clipped through one another.

This thread was cathartic.

[nshady]

Well said, RJ.

[admeister]

RJ: Haha, I was just joking about FFVII. Though it does look better than a fair few of the other PS1 games that were made around that time (not really going anywhere with this). I don't think it looked bad at the time, and it was the first 3D Final Fantasy. Anyway.

More on topic, I think that you (for the most part) and Nick are right, the Wii is a perfectly good console which certainly has the power to top the PS2, and we've already seen this. Control schemes are variable (definitely a good thing), so there's  not a lot to complain about, except lack of good games I guess.

Edit: What the? I only posted once! When I delete the double, they both disappear!